DiscountDelight - Beethoven: Symphonien Nos. 5 & 7 / Kleiber, Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
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List Price: $11.98
Our Price: $8.68
Your Save: $ 3.30 ( 28% )
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Manufacturer: Deutsche Grammophon
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Average Customer Rating:  
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Binding: Audio CD
EAN: 0028944740028
Label: Deutsche Grammophon
Manufacturer: Deutsche Grammophon
Number Of Discs: 1
Publisher: Deutsche Grammophon
Release Date: 1996-01-23
Studio: Deutsche Grammophon
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Spotlight customer reviews:
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Customer Rating:
Summary: Oh My God!
Comment: I'm not even religious. This recording made me glad I was alive to hear it. This cannot be overrated because I do believe it is the greatest piece of music I have ever heard. I've heard the 5th many times, everyone has. Kleiber is genius, what he chooses to accent and the touches he puts in make you want to cry out they are so perfect.
Customer Rating:
Summary: The Most Not-overrated and greatest recording of all time
Comment: I am totally confident when I say that this is the greatest recording of anything EVER. Yes, you all have a recording of the fifth and every single conductor in the world has beat the thing to death. But the reason why this recording should be so highly praised is because it does something dangerous. Kleiber takes the most known and popular symphony of all time, which has been played and re-played since the day it was premiered, and made it timeless. The recording just never gets old.
The term "fate" has never sounded so shocking or terrifyingly perfect. The first notes are played with such a deep tragic sound that we are left speechless and vulnerable to the power that Kleiber will gather and the very essence of Beethoven's masterpiece.
Technical errors are just non-existent and the sound is ideal. The Vienna really opens up their sound, which has always been bright and pretty, and turns it into an emotionally-shattering mix of sound. The 4th movement begins with this huge wall of sound that signals the heroic ending.
I was duly impressed the moment I heard this. See for yourself. Be prepared to experience the greatest half hour of classical music available on disc.
Customer Rating:
Summary: Which classic Fifth is best, Kleiber, Karajan, or Bernstein?
Comment: When Carlos Kleiber released his classic Beethoven Fifth in 1975 with the Vienna Phil., it made his reputation overnight, and the recording was greeted as a revelation. At the time I wondered if this was really true, since two older Fifths from the early Sixties, Karajan with the Berlin Phil. and Bernstein with the NY Phil., seemed quite wonderful already. Now I have the latest remastering of each, so I decided to sit down and compare them.
Sonics: The Kleiber recording was never one of DG's best--edgy, a bit thin, lacking in warmth. In its "Originals" reissue things are improved but not drastically so. However, neither Karajan nor Bernstein sounds appreciably better, the main difference being that these conductors asked for heavier weight in the lower part of te orchestra and were given wider stereo by the engineers. There is still some shrillness in the strings at loud volume on all three CDs. I would say that Karajan's latest SACD remastering gives him the edge. The trumpets at the beginning of the finale, for example, sound more exciting and easier on the ear.
Tempos: It's remarkable that all three ocnductors hear the Beethoven Fifth at the same tempo in every movement, within a few seconds of each other. (Karajan times out faster in the finale because he skips the exposition repeat, which Kleiber and Bernstien both take). The main exception is Bernstein's first mvoement, which at 8:30 takes a full minute longer than the other two and sounds stodgy by comparison (heard in isolation it comes off as measured and grand, a traditional approach in this movement, except for the ever-fleet Toscanini).
Interpretation: Here is where Kleiber's reputation stands or falls. I think if I played these three recordings blind, the finales would be identical to any listener. Karajan's first movement is more propulsive than Kleiber's--a surprise since Kleiber was praised for finding new energy in this worn-out music. In the second movement, where Kleiber always seemed light and expressive, the other two are, also. The scherzos are more or less identical. Only Bernstein's measured first movement gives away his performance, yet with careful listening it emerges that Karajan's phrasing is a bit on the stiff side, while Kleiber's orchestra seems a shade more alert and expressive.
In all, these are all performances to live with a long time. To me, it was surprising that Kleiber wasn't as revolutionary as I'd thought three decades ago. If it makes a difference, I once put five versions of the first movement on a CD to see which was preferred by some friends in a blind listening test. The Kleiber easily won, so maybe there is something special here after all. Second place went to Reiner's great recording from the Fifties on RCA.
Customer Rating: 
Summary: The Most Overrated Classical Recording of All Time. It's Still Good Though...
Comment: This ultra famous recording of the the Beethoven Fifth and Seventh is absurdly overpraised. I'm not going to be a Mr. Know-It-All and attack these performances just because people love them, I'm just going to try to be fair and impartial and get at the core of why these recordings shouldn't be deemed so unsurpassable.
Kleiber is an exceptional conductor and he knows exactly what he is doing, his penchant for drama, attack and drive, work well with these two symphonies but they miss quite a bit too. The VPO for instance is a great orchestra but they don't always rise to the challenge here. I want to pay particular attention to the sound of these recordings which is simply not that great. It's servicable, actually typical Deutsche Grammophon sound from the mid-70s. It's cold, at times harsh and stringy. The opening of the last movement of the 5th symphony is shrill, there is no resplendent majesty here like you get in Karajan's 1962 version or Guilini's version from the early 80's with the LAPO.
Kleiber's first movement is fast, intense but lacks the ultimate power I heard in the Karajan and Giulini versions. The second movement is good, Kleiber doesn't rush things, the scherzo is terrific, the transition to the finale doesn't have much mystery, certainly not the heaven storming insanity that Furtwangler brings to it in his war-time recording from the 1940's. Kleiber is also very literal in his observation of repeats in these works. Repeats everywhere you can find them is typically the norm in recent times. The repeat in the first movement is a must, obviously every conductor takes it but the finale repeat is a matter of choice. Kleiber of course takes it and it's to his credit that the movement doesn't drag as it might under someone else. Giulini's last movement does drag because he takes a slower tempo along with the repeat. Karajan on the other hand, never took the finale repeat in any of his versions, from 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s! All the Karajan versions fly to the finish with unbelievable, exhilarating force! So with Giulini or Kleiber, you're more exhausted by the end of the symphony, with Karajan, you're on cloud nine, ecstatic because of the power of the Berlin Philharmonic and because he skips the redundant repeat. Of course Kleiber's version is terrific but I would not give it this high of a status among classical recordings. Here are the best Beethoven 5ths, any Karajan version, especially the '62 and '77, the later 80's digital version is extremely powerful too but not as well played as the earlier versions. They all do pack quite a punch. Giulini with the LAPO is among the best, then Carlos Kleiber is up there in that great company as well, but not the definitive at all. If you want a Furtwangler 5th, of course there is the war-time performance to go to. It has a slow first movement but the rest of the work is majestic beyond words. Unfortunately you have to deal with the mono sound, even though it's not that bad.
The 7th symphony is a tricky one and I've never been completely convinced by any version that I've heard. Kleiber once again takes all the damn repeats! It's ok in the first movement, but he takes one too many in the scherzo and he takes the repeat in the final movement which makes things way too repetitive, many conductors used to skip this repeat but Kleiber is so bloody literal minded! Karajan's versions of the 7th are just too driven for my taste, even though Karajan's finales have always been the best! The fast speed works well in the finale. Kleiber is less driven than Karajan and Carlos is also more humane in the Allegreto. However, all these versions just don't spark me too much. Furtwangler on the other hand is outstanding but of course you have to deal with the old mono sound. You can find his version on the Music and Arts label. There is also Vladimir Ashkenazy's terrific 7th with the Philharmonia Orchestra, recorded in the early 80s. That version is very lyrical and although the tempos in the first 2 movements are too slow, somehow the performance seems right for what it is. The sound on that Ashkenazy version is much, much, more preferable to Kleiber or Karajan.
What you ultimately have here in Kleiber, is pretty intense, terrific performances but with some catches involved. The sound is not great, the Vienna Philharmonic lacks the unbelievable virtuosity of the Berlin Philharmonic and Kleiber insists on all the repeats just like most recent conductors and that tends to make things drag in the 7th symphony. All reservations aside, they are still great performances but this is surely not the holy grail of classical recordings!
Customer Rating:
Summary: Truly excellent, but not the "definitive" fifth
Comment: Already there are 117 reviews of this release on amazon, and most of them give five stars, as does mine. I think that I'm justified in writing though, because I feel that there hasn't been enough balance in the discussion here. Unquestionably, this is a great recording. The performance is on fire from the first notes, and is continualy alive until the very end. The score is rendered very clearly and intelligently, thanks to Kleiber, the Wiener Philharmoniker, and DG's engineers, who gave the instruments a finely resolved, albeit unnatural, sound. All of these qualities put these recordings head and shoulders above most of the competition, BUT they do not make a definitive recording as many have said here, since such a thing cannot exist. If your standards are the qualities I've talked about, this is the recording for you, but for instance I have different priorities. My aesthetics are based on the idea that art is an abstraction of nature, so what I prize above all is a completely natural, organic reading, that is, evolving inevitably from start to finish, where every moment is both determined by what has come before, and determines everything to follow. I feel that, especially in these works, Furtwangler is the highest exponent of this ideal, and indeed his performances of them are uniquely powerful spiritual experiences (for instance, the 1954 recording with the Berliners of the fifth, and the wartime recording of the seventh). But this is only one perspective; there are many other ways of evaluating the quality of recordings, and all of them will come up with different performances that are "ideal". So in short, I think a little objectivity is called for in reviewing these. They certainly are powerful, intelligent, and sincere performances, but contrary to what Mr. Hurwitz says, they certainly aren't "quintessential".
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Editorial Reviews:
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Long regarded as the quintessential interpretation of the most popular and best-loved symphony ever written, this performance of the Fifth has everything: passion, precision, drama, lyric beauty, and a coiled fury in the first movement that sets your pulse racing from the very first note. Carlos Kleiber has made very few recordings in his distinguished career, but almost all are special. If you own no other copy of this symphony, this is the one to get. It comes with an exceptional performance of the Seventh--not quite as gripping as the Fifth, but definitely one of the great ones. There is classical music, and there are classic recordings of classical music. This one's a classic. -- David Hurwitz
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